Faith is Born of Gratitude
Chat Held October 15th, 2003
Instructor: Marnie L. Pehrson

18:12:11 [marniep] There's an old Nigerian proverb that says, "Give thanks for a little and you find a lot."

18:13:09 [mamzel] so a little gratitude stretches what you have

18:13:21 [marniep] yep, sure does.

18:14:18 [marniep] Whatever we give our energy to, grows. If we focus on the negative, we draw more of it to us. If we focus on the good, we draw more of that.

18:14:40 [marniep] Gratitude is a powerful catalyst which pulls good to you

18:15:19 [marniep] James 4:8 says "Draw nigh to God, and He will draw nigh to you"

18:16:08 [marniep] Think about your children... if they come to you and thank you and say, "Wow Mom, thank you so much for making my favorite meal!" and they give you a hug will that make you want to make that meal for them again?

18:16:34 [AmyLN] definitely!

18:16:53 [marniep] What if they nag you and say, "Yuck, you made that again! You never make anything I like!" Does that give you an incentive to want to cook for them or does it just frustrate you.

18:17:43 [mamzel] we might have sandwiches =)

18:17:54 [marniep] EXACTLY!

18:18:33 [marniep] Sometimes I think it's a human tendency to use prayer as a means to ASK ASK ASK ASK and then when we receive we might throw out one Thanks if even that!

18:19:08 [marniep] There is nothing that offends God more than when we do not acknowledge His hand in all things and do not give thanks.

18:19:23 [marniep] But there is nothing that draws us closer to him than gratitude

18:19:53 [marniep] And if we wish to receive blessings from Him (from whom all blessings flow), we must draw nigh to Him and He in turn will draw nigh to us.

18:20:04 [marniep] There are 3 types of gratitude

18:20:13 [marniep] 1) Thank you... I got something I wanted

18:20:29 [marniep] that's just the basic kind of thank you that is based on politeness

18:20:40 [marniep] 2) Ouch! But thank you anyway

18:21:16 [marniep] Which is when something bad happens but somehow good comes from it in the end.

18:21:42 [marniep] Have you ever had something that you felt was bad happen, but it all worked out for your good in the end?

18:22:01 [AmyLN] Yes!

18:22:11 [marniep] wanna share?

18:22:19 [mamzel] yes

18:22:37 [AmyLN] My first marriage!! and divorce!

18:23:19 [marniep] turned out to be a good thing - eh?

18:23:25 [AmyLN] If not I wouldn't have met Gregg and the kids!

18:23:38 [marniep] true

18:23:45 [marniep] good example

18:23:52 [marniep] Bible Example: Joseph who was sold into Egypt... eventually led to him being Pharaoh's right hand man and saving all of Israel

18:23:58 [AmyLN] How about you MaryAnn?

18:24:27 [mamzel] sometimes kids saying something mean, but it made me think, and fix something

18:24:47 [mamzel] or not being able to leave on time, and finding out it was the wrong day

18:25:10 [marniep] good one...we learn how we can improve when we receive criticism

18:25:13 [marniep] 

18:25:39 [mamzel] so trying so hard at something, that wasn't going to be there.....i was glad to be spared and have the extra time

18:26:12 [mamzel] like that ?- babes .....you know how they are.....

18:26:51 [marniep] k good examples

18:26:58 [marniep] 3) A State of Gratitude - when it becomes a way of life where you're constantly grateful for everything - good or bad

18:27:25 [marniep] Our goal should be #3

18:27:43 [marniep] So what i want to talk about here are some ideas for being in a constant state of gratitude

18:27:57 [marniep] Some things I've used are...

18:28:24 [marniep] Trying to offer 1 prayer/day that is just thanking God... no asking, no griping, no complaining, just thanking

18:28:49 [marniep] My friend Leslie Householder taught me to ask once and then just thank Him from then on.

18:29:31 [marniep] She says it's really a lack of faith to keep asking. We're assuming that He doesn't hear us or that He doesn't want to give it to us. But if we ask 1 time and then just thank Him that it's on it's way then that is TRUE faith.

18:29:47 [marniep] It takes TRUE FAITH to be Grateful AHEAD of time.

18:30:54 [marniep] A good example of this from the Bible is Jesus. When he sat down with the loaves and fish and was preparing to feed the multitude, he thanked his Father for what they had - even though it was tremendously short of what they needed.

18:31:50 [marniep] Another time is when he raised Lazarus from the dead. BEFORE Lazarus came forth Jesus said, "I thank thee Father that thou has heard me." And then he told Lazarus, "Come forth"

18:32:19 [marniep] Any questions/comments?

18:33:09 [mamzel] never noticed Jesus only said thanks for the loaves/fishes, though they were so short

18:33:36 [marniep] I didn't either until I started studying about gratitude!

18:33:43 [mamzel] we might think to hold prayer to feed all these people please, but Jesus just said: Thank You

18:33:59 [marniep] I know!!

18:34:22 [mamzel] awesome 

18:34:30 [mamzel] found the smilies

18:34:38 [marniep] You know the thing is that Jesus KNEW beyond any doubt that His Father heard his prayers.

18:34:45 [marniep] He had perfect Faith.

18:35:17 [marniep] If we had that same kind of faith to KNOW that our Heavenly Father heard us and that He WANTS to answer us and WANTS to bless us.. then we could see miracles occur in our own lives.

18:36:15 [marniep] On a much smaller scale, I have learned from experience that my Heavenly Father hears my prayers and he LOVES.. and I mean absolutely LOVES to answer my questions. If lack wisdom or understanding, I can pray and He ALWAYS brings clarity.

18:36:38 [marniep] I have come to expect and to know that the answer will come... it may not be today, tomorrow or even this week... but the answer will come.

18:37:12 [marniep] Sometimes I have to ponder on it a while... like a marble rolling around in my brain until finally He guides me in ways that brings me the answer.

18:38:08 [marniep] But that is something that I am so immensely grateful for!! I can't even put into words the gratitude I feel to my Heavenly Father for the fact that He is there and that He wants to talk with me.

18:38:24 [marniep] And it's really a shame that I don't talk with Him more than I do.

18:39:44 [marniep] Because I know He will answer me, I have found myself asking a question and then thanking Him for what He will reveal to me. Gratitude boosts the power on your faith.

18:40:16 [marniep] You can thank him ahead of time when you come to know Him and know that He wants to bless you.

18:40:45 [marniep] any thoughts? questions on this?

18:40:49 [marniep] experiences?

18:41:02 [AmyLN] just amazed

18:41:50 [marniep] amazed about anything in particular? 

18:41:54 [mamzel] we learned to thank first in all our prayers, and once i switched to that myself, i always open and close with thanks, and always feel so good, like i've really done something

18:42:22 [marniep] good point, Mary Ann!

18:42:26 [AmyLN] It feels kind of conceited to think He has 'time' to bother with all our little problems!

18:42:28 [mamzel] i clicked the blue instead of the send button (pretty)

18:42:41 [mamzel] He does

18:42:43 [marniep] 

18:43:17 [marniep] CS Lewis has a wonderful analogy to help us understand this... Let me see if I can find it really fast

18:43:47 [AmyLN] While she's doing that Mary Ann how do you do the smilies?!?

18:44:31 [mamzel] click the ?, and choose your expression

18:44:57 [mamzel] <? is right to the left of the box we type in

18:45:01 [AmyLN] thanks . kind of computer dense, here , tonight! lol

18:45:14 [marniep] Ok...it's in Mere Christianity under the "Time and Beyond Time" section.

18:45:53 [marniep] He says, "A man put it to me by aying 'I can believe in God all right, but what I cannot swallow is the idea of Him attending to several hundred million human beings who are all addressing Him at the same moment.'

18:46:25 [marniep] CS Lewis answers this by saying that "at the same moment" is thinking like a mortal who is bound by time. God is not in Time.

18:46:52 [mamzel] If I WAS God, I'd have no problem comprehending this

18:47:20 [marniep] "His life does not consist of moments following one another. If a million people are praying to Him at 10:30pm, He need not listen to them all in that one little snippet which we call 10:30. 10:30- and every other moment from the

18:47:27 [AmyLN] but I'm not, so I do

18:47:52 [marniep] beginning of the world - is always the Present for Him. If you like to put it that way, He has all eternity in which to listen to the split second of prayer put up by a pilot as his plane crashes in flames.

18:48:05 [marniep] So he uses this analogy to explain it...

18:48:32 [marniep] "Let me try to give something, not the same, but a bit like it. Suppose I am writing a novel, I write 'Mary laid down her work; next moment came a knock at the door!" For Mary who has to live in the imaginary time of my story there is no interval between putting down the work and hearing the knock. But I, who am Mary's maker, do not live in

18:49:27 [AmyLN] oh !!!

18:49:30 [marniep] that imaginary time at all. Between writing the first half of that sentence and the second, I might sit down for three hours and think steadily about Mary. I could think about Mary  as if she were the only character in the book and for as long as I pleased, and the hours I spent in doing so would not appear in Mary's time (the time inside the story) at all. This is not a perfect illustration, of course. But it may give just a glimpse of what I believe to be the truth. God is not hurried along in the Time-stream of this universe any more than an author is hurried along in the imaginary time of his novel. He has infinite attention to spare for each one of us. He does not have to deal with us in the mass. You are as much alone with Him as if you were the only being He had ever created. When Christ died, He died for you individually just as much as if you had been the only man (or woman) in the world.

18:51:24 [mamzel] also i was thinking, our whole life, start to finish is right in front of Him all at once

18:51:58 [marniep] right Mary Ann... the past present and future are all before Him.

18:52:13 [marniep] I don't know whether CS Lewis is right...but I do like his analogy

18:53:24 [marniep] what do you think of this analogy?
18:54:00 [AmyLN] If past present and future area all before God, can situations change ? Why does it do any good to pray?

18:54:37 [mamzel] i do too, we might need to remember, there is so much more to our life than we can see

18:54:38 [AmyLN] <need help typing!>

18:54:46 [mamzel] being bound by Time

18:55:22 [marniep] CS Lewis addresses that too Amy... do you want me to give you that?

18:55:50 [AmyLN] Yes please!

18:55:56 [mamzel] good question Amy

18:56:02 [mamzel] i hear that a lot

18:56:15 [marniep] "Another difficulty we get if we believe God to be in time is this. Everyone who believes in God at all believes that He knows what you and I are going to do tomorrow. Buti f He knows I am going to do so-and-so, how can I be free to do otherwise?

18:56:40 [mamzel] no one really answers it good, except cs lewis =)

18:57:08 [marniep] Well, here once again, the difficulty comes from thinking that God is progressing along the Time-line like us: the only difference being that He can see ahead and we cannot. Well, if that were true, if God foresaw our acts, it would be very hard to understand how we could be free not to do

18:57:09 [AmyLN] guess I need to read cs lewis!

18:57:41 [marniep] them. But suppose God is outside and above the Time-line. In that case, what we call 'tomorrow' is visible to Him in just the same way as what we call 'today'

18:58:11 [marniep] All the days are 'Now' for Him. He does not remember you doing things yesterday; He simple sees you doing them, because though you have lost yesterday, He has not.

18:58:57 [marniep] e does not 'forsee' you doing things tomorrow; He simply sees you doing them; because, though tomorrow is not yet there for you, it is for Him. You never supposed that your actions at this moment were any less free because God know what you are doing. Well, He knows your tomorrow's actions in

18:59:30 [marniep] just the same way - because He is already in tomorrow and can simply watch you. In a sense, He does not know your action till you have done it: but then the moment at which you have done it is already 'Now' for Him.

18:59:38 [marniep] k...that's it

19:00:15 [AmyLN] Chat over?

19:00:30 [marniep] no... quote over LOL

19:00:34 [mamzel] that was great

19:00:54 [marniep] I like CS Lewis...I don't agree with 100% of what he teaches, but he does have a lot of good ways for explaining difficult concepts

19:01:10 [mamzel] i didn't read cs lewis, yet, but friends talk about him, he really tries to understand scriptures

19:01:24 [marniep] yes

19:01:45 [marniep] Back to gratitude really fast and I'll let you go

19:01:48 [AmyLN] lol

19:02:10 [mamzel] lol

19:02:15 [AmyLN] sorry computer going really slow here!

19:02:40 [marniep] One thing I swear by that you might like to try is a Gratitude Journal. I keep one and write what I'm grateful for in it... especially on days where things aren't going my way or I'm down. It cheers me up

19:03:22 [marniep] Also if I have a challenge ahead of me, I write down the way I want the outcome to turn out as if it has already happened and start off the description with "I am so happy and grateful now that..." followed by a detailed description of how I want it to turn out.

19:03:28 [mamzel] I've heard that - and want to do it - i haven't been on any kind of schedule, so i just forget

19:03:37 [mamzel] i do that now

19:03:55 [mamzel] the challenge thing, visualize the outcome & feelings

19:04:11 [marniep] Lately I've started calling it my prophecy journal (sort of kidding, but sort of not) because it works so well!

19:04:45 [mamzel] that's what mine sounds like, but i just call it imagination

19:05:04 [marniep] 

19:05:12 [mamzel] but i hope to look back on it and say: see, i "saw" this

19:05:15 [marniep] you must have a vivid imagination!

19:05:40 [marniep] I have learned one thing with it... and that is not to tie too much into certain people doing certain things... but be grateful for the outcome.

19:06:02 [mamzel] yeah, sometimes i get flashes, like it could really be that way, & write it down, so I don't abandon it

19:06:15 [marniep] Example, instead of saying "I'm so happy and grateful that Mary Jones is enrolling with MomsWIN, I would say, "I'm so happy and grateful that I have my 2 enrollments for the month"

19:06:30 [marniep] that's good... ALWAYS right it down! It's amazing what we forget

19:06:52 [mamzel] right - sometimes - we can't configure the other people right - because they might not be even close to thinking what you're wishing for

19:07:59 [marniep] right... and God doesn't want us to force our will onto others... He won't help us do that... but He will lead people to us who need/want what we have.

19:08:30 [mamzel] but it's really something when something does come to pass, and you see that you asked Him for it back then..cuz you wrote it down

19:09:28 [marniep] I know! I had something like that happen today... I read back over my gratitude journal and I saw where I had an answer to a prayer and then I evidently forgot I had my answer and went asking Him again about it a month later (cause i didn't think to go read my journal)

19:09:38 [mamzel] so we can be grateful coming and going, we thank him for all we do have now as we see it, and we really thank him for the sort of visual ones that we waited for and wrote about ahead of time

19:09:49 [marniep] He was kind enough to answer me twice, and with such a clear and definite powerful answer the second time that there was no forgetting it. 

19:10:44 [marniep] EXACTLY

19:12:16 [marniep] well, I've kept you too long here ladies, any last minute questions/remarks?
19:12:52 [mamzel] i'm just fine, and so glad He'll repeats if you don't get it or remember it 

19:13:22 [AmyLN] Thanks to you both for giving me something to ponder tonight!

19:13:36 [marniep] I know! I'm happy to learn that too!

19:13:42 [AmyLN] and tomorrow !!

19:13:59 [mamzel] welcome .....LOL and tomorrow

19:14:07 [marniep] Thanks for coming tonight! Would have been awfully lonely without ya!

19:14:30 [AmyLN] Glad you were here!

19:14:36 [marniep] thanks for your great questions Amy... you always have some good ones!

19:14:51 [AmyLN] lol

19:15:00 [marniep] And thanks for your insights Mary Ann!

19:15:22 [mamzel] glad they helped

19:15:27 [AmyLN] Good Night !

19:15:38 [marniep] Good night!